Group 3 The Hobbit

Throughout the book, we see Bilbo as this hobbit who is more comfortable with the idea of being alone in his hobbit hole, but as the story unfolds we see that Bilbo does indeed have an adventurous side.  This adventure that dwells within him comes from his Took heritage, and his love for staying at home being at peace comes from his Baggins side of the family.  We see a true sense of adventure in this Hobbit, even though he is not really accepted by the other hobbits like he was before, but thats ok because he is at home and has his pipe and is comfortable at home.  We also see Bilbo as a hero because of his act of giving the elf the Arkenstone because it means so much to Thorin. "For the Arkenstone of my father, is worth more than a river of gold in itself, and to me it is beyond price. That stone of all the treasure I name unto myself, and I will be avenged on anyone who finds it and withholds it" (Tolkien 244).  Because Bilbo did this, peace was restored.  This is an example of Loyalty, which to me is an example of a great hero.  My question to you is, why do you think Bilbo decided to do this on his own?  Do you think this is the reason Gandalf took Bilbo on the adventure with him?

Missed Opportunities

Thorin missed several chances to work peacefully with the Lake men and the Elves because of his greed. As soon as the Dwarves entered the stronghold they began building up the front gate to protect their treasure. Their immediate response to the men and the Elves is a defensive one. They question the intentions of the parley presented to them.
Bard, the man who actually shot the dragon approaches Thorin. "I am Bard, and by my hand was the dragon slain and your treasure delivered. Is that not a matter that concerns you?" Despite this claim to an audience Thorin refuses to part with a portion of his fortune.
Bard continues, "Moreover I am by right descent the heir of Girion of Dale, and in your hoard is mingled much of the wealth of his halls and town, which of old Smaug stole. Further in his last battle Smaug destroyed the dwellings of the men of Esgaroth, and I am yet the servant of their master." All of these reasons alone should be enough for Thorin to give up some portion of his hoard of gold, but he refuses.
The Elves and humans decide to leave peacefully, restating their offers to the Dwarves. A speaker declares to them, "We speak unto thorn Thrain's son Oakenshield, calling himself the King under the Mountain, and we bid him consider well the claims that have been urged, or be declared our foe." In response to this plea to listen to reason, Thorin shoots an arrow at the speaker. Instead of responding in anger by declaring war, the speaker says, "I declare the Mountain besieged. You shall not depart from it, until you call on your side for a truce and a parley. We will bear no weapons against you, but we leave you to your gold. You may eat that, if you will!" This gives them a nonviolent way to pressure the Dwarves into reconsidering a parley.
Thorin was inclined to starve inside his stronghold with his companions so Bilbo found it necessary to speak to Bard himself to resolve the dispute. By giving Bard the Arkenstone Bilbo presented another peaceful way to work around Thorin's greed. When Bard requests a trade of gold for the Arkenstone, Thorin agrees. However he keeps greed in his heart tinting, "And already, so strong was the bewilderment of the treasure upon him, he was pondering whether by the help of Dain he might not recapture the Arkenstone and withhold the share of the reward." Anticipating Dain's approach Thorin fails to actually give Bard the gold.
This leads to an unpreparedness for the Goblin assault because the mountain was unfortified. The Elves and the Lake men had to rush into the mountain to defend from an outside assault. Had they all been peaceful from the beginning the men would have helped to rebuild the fortifications and set up defenses. While the Goblins would have still been unexpected, Thorin would not have had to die. Instead of fighting outside the gates, archers and spearmen could have cut down the Goblin numbers from afar and kept casualties to a minimum.

power of greed

As the end of The Hobbit neared the dwarves became more and more greedy.  In particular Thorin got very greedy and refused to make any compromise with the humans and the elves.  In my opinion if anyone deserved the gold from the dragon’s lair it was Bard the human of Lake Town.  After all he was the one who slayed the Smaug, and if it weren’t for Bilbo sending the message Bard would not have known where to hit Smaug in order to actually kill him.  Thorin and the other dwarves on the other hand I do not feel have done anything to deserve the gold.  Throughout the adventure they have put themselves and others in danger.  They are careless and only think of themselves especially when they are in the moment.  This flaw in my eyes is not the dwarves doing it purposefully however this seems to be a flaw in the species of the dwarves because they all carry this characteristic.  Tolkien seemed to make them this way in order to show the stubborn side of them.  Also as a whole it is used to make known the downfalls of greed.  At the end of the story the one character who showed the most greed, Thorin, ended with an awful demise.  I feel this symbolizes that with greed comes sorrow and regret.  When Thorin was dying he realized how wrong it was of him to act the way he had and he says to Bilbo, “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”  This was Tolkien’s attempt to prove the fact that there are more things to life than riches and power.  Much like modern day this has always been an issue with society.

What will become of the rest of the dwarves after the adventure?

Will there ever be another adventure of the group that has not been killed?

Monstars: Dwarves

Out of all the other character in The Hobbit, I found the dwarves to be extremely interesting. Even though they were described as having simple characteristics, it is the dwarves that surprised me the most throughout the book. First of all, they are supposed to live to be extremely old, so you would assume that they would then at least be somewhat wise, right? Wrong.  Throughout the book they continuously make extremely juvenile and silly mistakes that typically bring scorn or ridicule from others. An excellent example would be the fact that the dwarves did not even bother to think of a way of transporting the treasure places once they possessed it. The book is mostly comprised of the dwarves making extremely stupid mistakes and then being saved later on by either Gandalf or Bilbo, who actually seem to possess common sense.

Dwarves are also described as being self-centered and often times greedy. We do see, however, instances throughout the book where the dwarves overcame said selfishness. When Bilbo stole the cup and sent Smaug rampaging, for example, the other dwarves risked their lives to pull up the remaining dwarves who had remained behind and were in danger of being killed by the dragon. Also, when Bilbo had to venture into Smaug’s lair, Balin bravely steps forward and accompanies the hobbit at least partway through the tunnel.

Where the dwarves described as being greedy solely for the purpose of making a bigger impression when they did something out of character?

Monstars: Dragon Greed

One of the most interesting aspects of The Hobbit I found was the whole idea of “Dragon Greed”. The dwarves (and many of the other characters in The Hobbit) were utterly obsessed by greed, whether it was greed for gold, power, land, or (In Bilbo’s case), food. Because of everybody’s greed, a town was destroyed and ransacked, The Battle of The Five Armies took place, and Thorin was killed (on a plus though, he did manage to make peace with Bilbo in the end before he died). In fact, out of all the characters in The Hobbit, I’d say one of the least greedy characters would have to be Bilbo. The only time he actually truly showed greed was when he picked up the Arkenstone and kept it despite the fact that Thorin was looking for it desperately and was inheritably his. Arguably, you could say that the fact that Bilbo kept the ring (despite the fact that it was obviously upsetting to Gollum) would qualify him as a greedy individual or a “burglar”, but considering the fact that Gollum was clearly intent on strangling the “Hobbitses” and the fact that he found the ring completely on accident, I think that qualifies him for a pass on the whole “greedy” label.

What would have happened if Bilbo had decided to give in to his greed and keep the Arkenstone instead of giving it to Bard? Would that have affected the outcome of the war?

Greed or Adventure?

J. R. R. Tolkien brings about a strong message thematically in The Hobbit when Thorin Oakensheild, one of his central characters, dies as a result of the Battle of Five Armies—a battle that takes place immediately after Thorin’s verbal attack towards Bilbo for his criticism of Thorin’s greed. This scene, in which Thorin lies on his deathbed speaking to Bilbo, represents what I would call the central theme of The Hobbit (and one which Sparky Spangler would certainly agree with). In this scene Thorin addresses Bilbo by telling him that, “There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West…If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world” (263). Thorin asks Bilbo for forgiveness for his actions prior to the Battle, and acknowledges his wrongdoings; furthermore, Thorin admits that the life Bilbo lives is the life his world needs more of. As a theme, this message blankly states that the world would be a better place if more people carried merry values as opposed to greed. On another note, this quote somewhat contradicts the entire adventure. At the end of the book Bilbo was “quite content” with his less-respected lifestyle. Even though he was once praised for his simple ways of life, he now accepts the criticism of his adventure that he receives at home.

So my question is this: What is Tolkien trying to say? If life were better without greed, what would tempt such wonderful adventures? Is it better to live a greedless life or a life without adventure?

A City on a Bridge: Dale or London

A city on bridge: London or Dale In chapter ten, after Bilbo and the dwarves escape from the wood elves, the travel down the river to Dale. Dale is the place where Humans live in this story, and I think dale has a significant role to play in the narrative. This is the first time Humans are introduced so far in the story, and the Tolkien gives an interesting description of their character. While I was reading this, I had a thought, that Dale might represent something in modern day life and illustrate an aspect of the society of Tolkien’s time. The first description of the the town of Dale is found on page 204 (of my addition) and is as follows; “A great bridge made of wood ran out to where on huge piles of forest trees was built a busy wooden town, not of elves but of Men, who still dared to dwell here under the shadow of the distant dragon-mountain” ( Tolkien 204). There are two elements I would like to pull from this passage. In the first half when it describes a town built on a bridge, I immediately think of London (or the London bridge) and I would argue that Tolkien is representing London here in the Hobbit as the town of Dale. In the second half of the passage, it mentions that Men still “dare” to live under the mountain. This word stuck out to me, and seemed to imply something about the nature of Man in the story. Is Tolkien saying, they are more brave, foolish or arrogant then other creatures? Taking this a step further was I have said that Dale represents London, can their be an allegory here between the character of Men in the story to the state of society in Tolkeins time? On the next page, Tolkien gives more description to the nature of the town itself and how it operates. He says that the Men stay under the mountain and live from the trade that comes down the river. However he says that they were much more prosperous before the dragon was around, which implies that they are in a sort of economical depression. Though some sing songs and look back to the time of prosperity, most even acknowledge that it exsisted. “But men remembered little of all that, though some still sang old songs of the dwarf-kings of the Mountain…” (Tolkien 205). Further more, they don’t seem to be bothered much by the dragon at all. “But this pleasant legend did not much effect their daily business” (Tolkien 205). What I interpreted from these passages is that they are all caught up in their day to day business that they don’t seem to care to acknowledge whats going on the outside world. I would argue that Tolkien is eluding here to the way the average person acts in modern society; where they care little about what’s going on outside of their immediate day-to-day lives. Further more, I believe Smauge represents something more than just greed and gold-lust, but could possibly represent, maybe World War II, maybe the depression going on in America, or even the Government. As the men of Dale seem to pay little attention to Smaug, as he provides no immediate threat, the average person living in modern London pays little attention, to war or politics unless it provides an immediate threat to day-to-day living. 1. Does Dale represent London 2. Does Smaug represent something other than greed (war, politics, economic depression)? 3. What makes men different from the dwarfs and the elvs?

Dwarves vs. Hobbit

     The majority of the characters in J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit are dwarves, making them imperative to both the story line and the quest of which they are partaking. However, I believe they are also used to draw a sharp comparison between the dwarves and Bilbo. This reading continues to build a comparison of the dwarves and the hobbit, drawing upon the actions and mannerisms of both parties. In class, we discussed that Bilbo and Gandalf were similar, and that perhaps Bilbo was in some way or another meant to take Gandalf's place among the crew. In any case, the dwarves do turn to Bilbo to supply a plan, as we see in the passage: "What then do you propose we should do, Mr. Baggins?....What are we to do now, to-day?" (page 198*). Not only does this passage begin to show the dwarves reliance upon Bilbo, but it also shows the dwarves lack of lack of thought about anything other than the treasure which they believe is rightfully belongs to them. The dwarves also have a certain naivety about them. Bilbo cautions them saying, "I believe [the thrush] is listening, and  I don't like the look of him." Yet Thorin replies, "Leave him alone!...The thrushes are good and friendly" (page 205). Yet after the thrush leaves, Bilbo becomes very agitated, sensing that they are unsafe. It turns out to be a well-placed feeling of caution as "not a moment too soon...a blow smote the side of the Mountain" (page 208). After the dwarves followed Bilbo to the dragon's hoard, they wonder over the gems they find. An insight to the character of a dwarf is brought to light when it is stated, "The mere fleeting glimpses of treasure which they had caught as they went along had rekindled all the fire of their dwarvish hearts; and when the heart of a dwarf, even the most respectable, is wakened by gold and by jewels, he grows suddenly bold, and he may become fierce" (page 214). This "fire" seems to grow and consume the dwarves as "long before the dwarves were tired of examining the treasures, [Bilbo] became weary of it and sat down on the floor" (page 215). This shows that while the dwarves are most interested in their treasure, Bilbo is able to maintain an awareness of the situation that they are in while the dwarves seem to revel in the jewels surrounding them without much care to what may come next. I think it is important to watch the differences between Bilbo and the dwarves as they occur, and to see what influence one has on the other, as we already know that the dwarves have spurred Bilbo's "Tookishness".

I got confused with the opening of the side door. What happened? Why did the key hole suddenly appear? Why did the thrush pick up a snail?

*I have a different book than the majority of the class. I am typically 1.5-2 pages behind you. For example, page 198 in my book is most likely page 200 in yours.

Comparing "Beowulf" and "The Hobbit"

I thought that the scene where the dwarves and Bilbo arrive in the Lake Town was interesting. It sort of reminded me of Beowulf and his crew arriving at Heorot. At first, everyone is very skeptical of the visitors, but as soon as they figure out their leader is, the citizens are welcoming. On page 180 after being asked who they are and what they want, Thorin says, “[I am] Thorin son of Thrain son of Thror King under the Mountain…I have come back. I wish to see the Master of your town!” There is a lot of excitement after Thorin announces who he is because the people there respect his lineage. They already know the stories of the great leaders who were Thorin’s and grandfather. After Thorin announces who he is again on page 181 the story states, “All leaped to their feet. The Master of the town sprang from his chair.” There is an emphasis on lineage in The Hobbit just like in the Anglo-Saxon period. In Beowulf, it seemed like every other line we were reading about someone’s lineage. The Hobbit is clearly set in a time similar to the Anglo-Saxon period because there is such an emphasis put on the importance of ancestry.

Why were the people of the Lake Town excited to see Thorin?

How else can The Hobbit be compared to Beowulf?